What makes a GREAT friendship?!

"There is a gentlemanly respect and tolerance between us, building on the mutual understandings accumulated over the years."

It's that time of the year where I should be planning for my trip home and getting in at the right time to book good bargain-hunting air-ticket. I inevitably think of my best friend in Singapore, FT. A colleague once said, as the more years you lived, the more you know it is impossible to establish new and lasting friendship with people you just knew, unless it's work or other social occasions, religiously related, family-related, etc. Anyway, this does not bother me very much, I count quality more important than quantity, and yes, less is more. I must have known FT for almost 20 years now. I knew him during my University day. As far as I can remember, that was towards the end of the final year, that I get closer to him, in term of talking about the future after University, etc. As we chat a bit more, I get to know more of FT. He seemed at times "let down" by friends by their seemingly mockery comments and that upset him. I thought perhaps he was quite sensitive, or perhaps his friends could have care a bit more about his feelings. I, however, can tell FT could be a little direct sometimes, but he means no harms and can be quite honest and willing to share his opinions. Once, seeing him again upset by his bunch of other friends again, I told him he can choose his friends no problem (not to imply that he should dump his other friends), just get on with it. I am not sure if it is because of that, our friendship gets better from then on.

It was FT who initially suggested that me and him to go sourcing for Overseas University Masters degree programs based in Singapore and to choose suitable one for us to help advance our career, as it seemed me and him also have a bit of problem on career progress at that time, when we are still at  early stage of working life. As it happens, things leading from one to another, I finally decided that I came to the UK to pursue my MBA in Leeds (rather than doing the distance program in Singapore). FT was not as lucky as me (as I got some financial loans from a good friend), so he didn't to follow me to come to the UK. However, I was not as lucky later as it turns out, since following my MBA completed in 1998, it was Asia Financial Crisis at its worst! I stayed behind to pursue my PhD until I completed it and started a full time academic career about 5 years ago.

FT, however, carried on with his life in Singapore, making every conscious effort to transform his career in the banking sector, as he was a civil servant initially for about 3 years. We kept in touch during my time in the UK, often using MSN to chat and communicate about just anything under the sun. FT later came to Nottingham University to do his MBA. We did visited each other as I was in Edinburgh at that time. After he returned to Singapore, his career progressed every well and I was really happy for him, working from bank to bank, with this role expanding from one to another, showing his increasingly important profile at work. He is currently heading a risk division in one foreign bank based in Singapore. He shared with me his experience on this latest role at work, not hiding from me that, behind all glamorous title holders in a bank, there is a always a dark (i.e., political) side, which I am sure, given his years of experiences, he will handle it well.

Thinking again about this friendship with FT and what makes it great (at least in my opinion, it is!), is that, I think we don't really have any expectation of each other. There is a gentlemanly respect and tolerance between us, that is built on the mutual understandings accumulated over the years. I remember when I visited him at Nottingham, he let me sleep on his bed, while he slept on the floor. In the morning, he tried to make scramble eggs for me, it didn't succeed, and we had a laugh. I still ate some of it. It's the thought that counts, and I appreciated a lot. Now each time when I was about to return back to UK, at the end of my holiday trip in Singapore, he would try to come to the airport to send me off, though sometimes he didn't make it, I still appreciated his thought.

I will always be thankful to FT, because without him, I probably won't see the importance of furthering my education. I probably would still be Singapore at this time and not even sure of my career progress. If FT gets closer to me, because I told him that he has to choose his friend, then I think I am very lucky. I like to think that he had chosen me as his friend. I am lucky. :D

My Introvert Experience (2)

Do you think you are more of an Introvert or Extrovert?
I think the relatively introvert or extrovert personalities could be nurtured. However, I guess there is a base for everyone, which then broadly defines one's extent of introversion or extroversion. The environmental factors then force one to act either inwardly or outwardly, and hence deepened or reinforced the existing effects. Then you may become more extrovert or more introvert. For me, I think I tend to be more introvert than extrovert.

How does that introversion developed over the year?
It all began in the family since young (and then perhaps that extend out later to social situation with friends at school, etc). The environment had a big impact on me. One distinctively different feature about an introvert is that, they "think then act or speak". I guess for me, I may have thought too deeply and too much, and I just could not speak or act appropriately, because those inputs that enter my thinking system confused me. For example, since young I have always confused why my mom kept asking me to ask my dad to give up his bad habits of drinking and gambling, because if that is the case, why my mom wanted to marry my father and what made her think that if she can't do that, me as a kid (8 or 9 year old then) would be able to do so. Family is an interesting situation to observe group dynamics and people interaction. I had tried playing roles of all and failed all of them, perhaps I had thought too much and hence often end up "acting" at the wrong time. In particular, I was not good at managing others' people anger. When two people fight, I found it so powerless to turn them around. My mom was angry with my dad because of his problem and my second brother always became angry after my mom was angry with my dad, because my second brother was sympathetic about my mom. I only had gently told him once, "don't get angry when mom is angry". I still didn't think he get it. Anyway, that's quite a typical introvert of me, think a lot, and then act or speak at the wrong time and perhaps using incorrect strategy.

If being introvert means "you think a lot", and looks like the family was quite a mess, were you depressed at all?
Now I think of it. It's true to some degrees that "thinking a lot" HURTS! This is because you didn't get a chance to let it out and you become so self-absorbed. One weakness of being an introvert is the inability to clear up conflict, given the bad experience with people who are mostly angry, it freak me even more thinking about clearing up conflict. I, however, don't think I was clinically depressed. I found a world of my own when I started to write. I picked up writing a diary at the age of 13. I found a place to express myself. I found an outlet. At times, I do found I was depressed but I soon "bound back". Being an introvert also helps me here because it helped me "detach" and learnt not to take things too hard or personally. This is because as I take a step back, I move back even more to be an introvert, and I began to feel a sense of peace and hence prevented me to be further affected by other people's (other family members) negative emotions. The fact I started to write diary helps me in a big way and give space to my thinking capacity and spaces. I don't think it is a strength issue that I am able to cope this, rather it is a coping technique (therefore this can be LEARNED, rather than STRENGTH which is like underlying in the personalities). Precaution is better than cure and that is why despite having a rather crowded mind at times, I never feel I was depressed or mentally ill at all.

Given a choice, do you like to be more of an introvert or extrovert?
I actually quite envy being an extrovert. They seem so fearless. I can easily spot a couple of colleagues who are of this type personalities and observing the way they talk and behave at meeting, I wish I could have some of their qualities. They are also often so fast, sharp and alert to react, and never fail to impress and with an air of effortlessness. While these are all true, but who knows yourselves better than you do. Over the years, as you learnt more about your weakness, strength. What you see and envied in others that are so-called extrovert qualities no longer becomes important. You accepted the ways you are and you are okay with it because you can equally achieve what the extrovert can achieve, with only just a little different in the impact and it does not matter because it is all about YOU. Therefore, I would be happy to be either, introvert or extrovert as both have their strengths. It is how to exploit them to bring out the BEST to serve your purpose in life.

Technologically leveraged friendship

"...Be careful what you wish for.."

Talking about being sentimental and age and how this affects one's view of friendship, I am beginning to realise how powerful technology has developed in such a way that it changed the way you see friendship. I am the more conservative type. I don't have lots of friends on facebook, for example, and not intend on increasing too many too soon, and NOT (what a "narrow escape" on facebook, at least I tried) knowing people without first knowing/seeing them in REAL life. I think friendship can be enhanced by technology, but technology cannot totally replaced how one will know a person. Feeling can be wrongly interpreted, words can be misled. People that you don't know (or not seen at all in real life) only get connected to you by common interest, for example, where exchanges of opinions took place and nothing else. Any attempts in this case to try and take things too seriously would only be at one's risk.Yes, it is "superficial" because it cannot get any deeper than the emotional depth, but it serves some purpose. People should really be careful what they wish for. This is  my personal experience and opinion and only apply to some people.

When I was younger, living/working in  a place like Singapore (as least for me) makes one feel a little difficult about establishing good friendship, as in what basis are you "friending" people and what "motives", if it is for business, and if you stripped off the element of "business", what make people connect with people began to be clear and if you are not up for a friendship, then it all fell into pieces. I often have this issue while I was working in the commercial sector, dealing with clients and customers and serving them, and putting my minds making them happy people. I certainly didn't quite understand the sophistication of human relationships. I was also often caught up with not "catching up" with existing friends, as in if you not seen them for a while the friendship will "fade away" and then you feel so weird visiting them on Chinese New Year. You just not sure you visit them for the New Year or because you want to "catch up" with them. When things are not making sense, it lost me altogether.

I often quite fancy a good old fashion long distance friendship. Letter writing is such a sentimental experience, where you put your thoughts and emotion down, putting them in words and expressed them beautifully to your pals. Over time, technology advanced the pace and depth of friendship development. Generally or at least for me, I find people do meet, but maybe not so often, and we should not really bother too much about it, unless if you began to expect a bit more then this way of developing friendship is not for you (or maybe you should find a different type of website or way of communicating with your friends).

In short, in this context of friendship, meeting or no meeting does not matter, it's the quality of friendship that matter. I am enjoying and benefiting from this. My recent chats with friends, whom I last met only one or two years ago have been empowering and reassuring. May this carry on for as long as possible. Of course, people may come or they may just go, still there is no expectation whatsoever, it's really whether your other chat mates share the same belief with you on building friendship this way. I have been lucky to know friends supporting this belief. I would just enjoy the time and the quality that I get from such meaningful interactions, so thanks to GG, YC, George and a few others. Friendship has never been so simple.It's GREAT! :D

Some "friendships" just cannot be forced

"....but some could be so simple that you cannot believe it is happening.."

I had a nice chat with GG the other day on MSN. I have known GG for more than 10 years. I knew her in the third year of my working life while in Singapore. She was one of the Realtors in the company, always bringing clients around for flats viewing. She was friendly, willing to share opinion and open.  I like her because she didn't take herself too seriously and even laugh at herself, down to earth and genuine. GG is one of the very few friends I have known for more than 10 years. She felt exactly the same as more than 10 years back. Time has not changed her. We still talk about the up and down of the property markets and the effects of the economy.

As one aged with time, one becomes better at living with oneself. Probably you may have friends that already settled down with a family, but for you, you just "settled down with yourselves" if you don't have a young family. You also grow more likely to revise expectations about friendship as time gone by, as you become more open-minded and generous and also learn to take things easily. However, it could be harder. If you were younger, as you would tend to be tenderer and vulnerable, not having that friendship that potentially could be "further developed" (whatever that means to you) could be quite hurtful. It takes times for you to realize some friendships just cannot be forced. Some pains just need to let itself out slowly and being angry over it only aggravates matters. As I could remember, those experiences I had only challenge me to build up my composure and made me into a stronger person over time. One just needs to be very patient with oneself and remember to focus on what one have, and not what one doesn't have.

I have different expectation about friendship nowadays, and I treasure this one with GG. There is noting heavy in it. It's amazing how people can attract people, sometimes it could be so simple that you can't believe it is happening.  GG is such good fun. She is not one of those friends that if I didn't visit them when I am back in Singapore, they will take it to heart, though I know some will and make me feel guilty for a long time. GG and I chat on line only about 2 or 3 times a year. I met her maybe one every year or once every two years. She is one of those friends that, when we made jokes and laughed, I can laugh out loud until I cry, it gave me lots of belly pains, but it certainly worth it! We are happy the way it is with no further expectation of each other. Friendship, at this stage of my life, is nothing more than a good company and that matters to me. GG, you are everything that money can't buy! :D

Thank you for remembering me on Christmas

"Feeling gratitude and not expressing it is like wrapping a present and not giving it." ~ William Ward

The early morning on Christmas Day was especially peaceful, even I could feel that. I have lived in the UK for over ten years across five cities. Each time I moved from one to another, I knew new people and kept in touch with the old ones, though this means we will become less close since we will be distance apart. Thanks to facebook for making it possible to chat and catch up with long distance friends. Some knew I am spending Christmas alone and have sent me Christmas card and KA called to wish me happy Christmas from Norfolk, where he spent this Christmas with his family. I also received a text from WF and his wife wishing me the same, in which I returned one.

A Chinese Visiting lecturer specially sent an email wish me Merry Christmas and told me a card is being sent on the way and hope I will receive in time for the festive season. That was a nice gesture. Kevin sent me a card too. I knew Kevin while I was at Aberdeen. He used to ask me out for a drink whenever he visited Aberdeen to see his parent. Meeting Kevin was really lucky. There was a gentlemanly distance and we appreciated that and enjoyed good engaging conversation, he was supportive and I do like his company.

I also cannot forget the Custom-made Christmas Card sent by KM, which he put some much thoughts on it and wickedly funny as well. I love it. I had not celebrated festive periods like Chinese New Year or Christmas for many, many years. It is not something you can do very much if you don't have a family, but I am increasingly finding myself used to this, which felt scary at first, but not anymore. I want to say a big thank you to the kind friends for the cards, text, calls, emails and greetings on facebook. You had made me feel having a Christmas Day, even if only once in every 365 days, is a BIG bonus. Thank you for remembering me. May 2012 brings you lots and lots of happiness! :D

A little Christmas Wish

 "... Maybe grandma won't be celebrating Christmas, but as long as she was happy, I would be happy for her...."

KM missed her mom the other day while listening to "O Holy Night" and had some emotional moments. I can understand it is Christmas festive periods where family members gather and have some nice time together, exchanging gifts, etc, so I can imagine how KM felt suddenly when mom was not around anymore. This Christmas I am still going to do some works, but when I am not doing my work, I sometimes thought about my grandma, who passed away for about 3 years now. My grandma adored me, and took care of me until I was 6 year old, I think and I was then brought back to live with my parents. I guess I was not too used to living with my parents, as I very quickly felt the tension in the family, especially those between my parents. I immediately sensed something was not quite right. I was very insecure, intense and rebellious at a young age. It is only coming to weekend I will be happy because I will be spending weekend at grandma's!!

Spending weekends with my grandma moved me away from my quarrelsome parents. Grandma was kind. Grandma would talk to me about how I had lived. I would help her with daily chores. The sort of  relationship I could not imagine I would have with my mom. I often felt that was where I should belong and enjoyed the nice peaceful weekend here and felt happier. As I grew up and started working, I reduced my times spent with grandma over the weekends, but I still visited her. Her kindness still the same, concern and take care of me. Now as I came to think of it, what so special about her is that positivity in her mentality and the gesture of being kind just to anyone moved me. She became like an inspiration in that, some of her behavior began to affect me in the way I dealt with people. This influence will be with me forever.

The other night I dreamed of grandma. That must be the third time I dreamed of her this year. In my dream I saw grandma and she was happy. I was not sure if it was her that I saw, so I said, "is that you, grandma?", she still smiling and still happy, but she didn't say a word. Then I said, "okay why not I touch you and I will know if this is you". Then I use my finger and poke her arm. Gosh, it was real, I can feel the fresh of the skin. I said, "gosh, grandma this is true, you are grandma!" Next thing as far as I can remember, I opened my eye and I woke up.

That felt so magical and I told my mom about this and she told me grandma must have taken a flight to the UK to visit me and we were both glad that grandma was happy, wherever she was. As much as I felt grandma lived in my heart,  I miss her sometimes, I miss her smile, that showed deep kindness and compassion, like a breath of fresh air. If you looked at her, you would feel the calmness and the peace in her and you would feel equally peaceful. I miss her, I want that magical moment in my dream again. Would Santa grant me this little wish of dreaming my grandma again on Christmas Day? Perhaps grandma would not be celebrating Christmas and would be busy, but as long as she is happy, I would be happy for her. :D

Memory is the gift of time

"... and those open doors bring us back. Some doors, indeed, were never close..."

It felt a little strange how time flies, and as I looked back to the past, still the memories seemed vague, but it seems like only yesterday we met in the university's day. I cannot say we were extremely close, but I guess, and like most do, one of those "hi" and "bye" sort of friends. the rather "impersonal" way of life in Higher Educations, shook up my whole idea about friendship. You felt you lost touch of it so easily, and people come by and go, who you want to become close with, and who you want to choose as your friends seems such a daunting task. That was the very first time I experienced how friendship meant something different. I was a little shock, but nonetheless, got on with it, knew a few good friends during the University's days, but never quite get close with you. I supposed we had one or two occasions that we had assignment together, that we discussed together, amongst other course mates, that happened to have to do that economics assignment for the same week.

They all said friends you made during your schools' days are the best, yet, I am not sure if I had made the best use of that during my time. Then you realized after you graduated and began working, when you felt you needed someone to share personal opinion about life, work and career in general, you didn't find you could get someone as a listener. And often you found, moving from one job to the next means people that you knew before closed their doors while you see others in the new jobs opened theirs. It still felt the same after all these years, except that you found some people nicer than others, which you accepted as the way it should be.

"Facebook" no longer helps me differentiate between acquaintance and friends, the more this prompted me to search for my friends from the past. I have a loud cry inside me, that wanted to rediscover my past, reconnect with people I knew in the past. And I stumbled you on facebook. Gosh, that familiar face floated back my mind and I immediately recognized you, you don't look any different at all. Some doors seem never close, and I passed by you and said hi, not sure what to expect, totally understand how people can become different over time, but you welcomed me and you invited me, which was a delight and a very pleasant surprise.

Obviously, I am already a very different person compared to those days and I am sure you are in similar situation, but I didn't quite feel a difference in you when we chat, that subtle kindness you show, perhaps a bit more mature now? Memory (though vague) is a gift of time, your open doors bring us back, and we become re-connected.  I can be myself and be open about myself, just like in the good old days. And I began to wonder, where have you been all these years. I am glad I found you and I am looking forward to seeing you next time, but meanwhile on this special day, happy birthday, happy birthday, happy, happy birthday. :D

Desire, Expectation and Happiness

 ". we all deserved some, it's about how you get it..."

When my primary school teacher started to talk about the virtue of saving, and encouraged us to develop it as a habit, I thought that sounded so familiar. Well, I learned about saving from my own personal experience at home. Yes, I learned to save at a very young age, the quest for security drove me down this route, and I became very self-absorbed. There was a serious lack of security floating in the air in my family, to the extent we believe money is everything, yet we can't have everything because we often run into "money problem" at home (read more about this on here). Anyway, from my little habit i picked up on saving, I learned to live by the minimum and by doing so, I have very little desire and hence low expectation. I felt happier as I know I would less likely to run into "trouble"

Indeed, I see no desire, no expectation and therefore happiness as a good formula. See, if you have a car because you want to "show off", you will have to handle it if it broke down, which I cannot bear to think I have to deal with the consequences. You win some, but you lose some, and I am not bother at all losing out on having a car. The satisfaction derived from having a car can be replaced by other things. After all these years, situation changed and I become relatively well-to-do, still I am not quite spendthrift, my brother would say I am tight, my mom would always ask me "to buy more to eat". My dad would say, why are you saving so much money for, what is the use. My dad's remark, which he made few years ago, seriously made me question my purpose of existence, which of course, include my existence with my wealth. What's it's for and what it suppose to represent and imply. Recently, I found a conclusion for myself and I have decided what I would want to do about it.

Owing to my lifestyle, being living alone and independent, it allows me to think about my "quality" of life, and not having to spend a fortune, I am able to live quite comfortably, leading a healthy lifestyle, focusing on food, exercise and good work life balance. I am amazed by the relation of desire and expectation to happiness, which I believe is true, but for me, I learned it by the hardest and darkest way possible, where I only see the light coming out from another end of the tunnel,after quite a while. Perhaps you also have your own experience unlike those of mine, but we all get there one day.

Ivan

" it is really thankful to have a friend visiting...."

"Hey you put on weight since the last time I saw you!" I told Ivan as soon as he got out of his car and walked towards my flat. I knew Ivan when I was a lecturer at Aberdeen. He was then a PhD student, working on a topic, that I once claimed to be quite "girlie"! I think it is a topic about "management and culture in an off-shore based oil refinery firm based in the Middle East". He didn't stay behind to attend the graduation because his PhD studies experiences was too painful. It didn't give him good memories and he didn't see it meaningful to attend the graduation. He quickly moved down to London after he finished the PhD as he found a job in a construction firm (I think), as a safety officer. Ivan's parents are from Afghanistan and Cyprus. No one can be more exotic than that, and indeed with his dark skins and hairs and his high cheek bone, sometimes he looks like an ancient Greek God. Ivan is very funny, but he is also a good friend. He can be very honest with you and can be constructive as well, with good intention and not mean harm.

Ivan visited Leicester on some business meeting, and he must hit the road around 5.30 pm, before the traffic flow flooded the road, so we only took a walk round town and have a chat along the way, not very long, but we updated a bit of each other life and share our thoughts. Ivan and I earn about the same amount of income, reasonably fine, enough to pay the bill, but as Ivan so rightly said, he is in London, but I am not, so cost of living differs and has an impact. Also, Ivan told me about the nature of his job, that he needed to run about the site, inspecting work project, so I got a feeling about how he works like. I honestly told him, I think my situation is better, at least my time is flexible and  you don't feel people are watching you, as long as you do your job (i.e., mainly about research).

Ivan asked about my social life, etc, whether I went pub, clubbing, which I recalled I have been out with Ivan  once or twice having a good times while at Aberdeen. I told Ivan Loughborough is a "ghost" town, with very little to do,so he should know what to expect and we burst out laughing as we walked back towards my flat. And then he said, "I understand you are doing mediation, but your flat is your home and your body and soul, get a few pieces of furniture, small portable one, it will feel different, though I think the flat has a good layout!". How nice of him to point that out. I really, really think Ivan put himself in my shoe when he said that. I appreciate it, though it is up to me to decide what I want to do with my flat.

As I bid him farewell, I asked him to send my regards to his wife. Knowing me and my lazy style, I really don't know when I will visit London. But, for me, it is really thankful to have a friend visiting. It adds a little something to my daily routine. It felt alive living in this town, which I am slowly learning to explore and expand my scope of activities outside my work life.

Family and Karma

"....some parents never feel they gave enough to their kids, while others find they had given out too much.."

I have the chance to watch "on the fringe 2" (边缘父子) on the web. It's a drama series about problematic parents, rather than problematic kids. The storyline is realistic. It did not simply reflect what happen in the underworld. More importantly, it reflects the life of those "on the edge". Those involved indirectly. For example, those who gambled and ended up borrowing from "loan shark" to tide over hard times, just like my dad. Yes, I have parents going through similar experiences like you saw in "on the fringe 2"

I guess It will be interesting to know how someone actually living in a family condition like that will feel. Everything has a consequences and so is this matter. First of all, I guess I learn to live my life without expectation. You didn't find adults are trustworthy and can be relied upon, you become very independent for very different reasons, but not wrong reasons. A bit like that Zhiyong in the drama, who felt dejected at home, become rebellious and wanted to leave home. His poor mother almost suffered a breakdown over the guilt of her own regret of marrying a wrong man, because of the failure to take good advice (a bit like my mom too!).  Of course, I am still a lot luckier than Zhiyong, at least I was "granted" a sense to know the importance of education as the only way out (hope by the drama end, he can see that), playing the long game.

The harassment of loan shark was also shown in the drama. This had happened to us before. I had come across my father's name being put up on the wall, all over the place, because he owed some HUGE debt. That was rather hard to bear. The hardest is the absolute hopelessness that was left behind all of us, followed by angers that transformed into arguments and fights among other family members. And then I remembered it was me, who asked my dad if he wanted to go and see a counsellor to get some helps, after I had a cold war with him for 2 years, because I lent him some of my saving (to be used for my university few years down the road) and still not solved his problem. My dad agrees to that, but I didn't feel my effort to bring him to the counsellor was appreciated by other members in the family because my dad was not someone you can be hopeful of. His gambling and drinking problems say it all! At that time, I didn't have any expectation and/or hopes either. It's just taking one step at a time. However, my dad decided that prior to the second meeting with the counsellor, he wanted to stop the session. I have to let it be since he was the one who agreed to it in the first place. Strange enough, I didn't know how, but bringing the counsellor in seems to work. From then on, things seem to change for the better, but slowly. I can only say, there is no "unfinished business" now between my dad and I. In all honestly, for a son to go that far, the son is doing a lot. I cannot see how much more he can do to be a better son.

Though I was borne into a family like that, I very quickly in a very early stage of my life understand the true meaning of "imperfection", that there is no need to envy others in "good" family, we will bound to have problems anyway, so what's the difference. As I began to question why then are some people borne in "good", and some in "bad" family, I began to believe it's our Karma. Those sins we committed in our past life implicate our current life. It has to be "repaid" in some ways, which is why some parents never feel they gave enough to their kids, while others find they had given out too much. I was glad I was able to see this at fairly early stage of my life, and not affected by it too much as I quickly moved on, leaving all  baggage behind, which is equally important to me, when subsequently making decision to come to the UK, particularly for the PhD studies.. 

Looking back to what had happened to my life, and if this were to be written as a novel, then those childhood period is perhaps only the first few pages of that novel, because a lot more interesting and exciting ones are actually found after that, and a lot more elaborated.